Dan and Broc interview Jeremy Boyum from Shadow of Whales, a band based in Texas.
Jeremy makes some great points about business not being about constant growth, but a series of ups and downs. Be careful not to let laziness strike and every time you fall, you will get back up a stronger person if you keep at it.
He reminds listeners to speak positivity into their lives and as anyone that is part of the EDGY Empire knows to “Do the hard things.”
Looking to connect with Jeremy and stay up-to-date with Shadow of Whales, join their Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/shadowofwhales/
Dan: [00:00:01] Hello everyone, Dan Waldschmidt here. I’m joined with by with. Oh my goodness, twice now. I’m joined with my good partner, Broc Edwards.
Broc: [00:00:10] Hey Dan. it Sounds like you’re standing in a wind storm there. Are you outside while you are recording this?
Dan: [00:00:15] I’m not outside but maybe there is a tornado of awesomeness. I don’t know. This may be one of those episodes again where that, lead by Broc, somewhat assisted by Dan.
Broc: [00:00:32] Will see if your mic holds up.
Dan: [00:00:34] As you know, this is the bring your own awesome podcast where we have discussions with people who are doing awesome things, lessons we can learn, help we can provide and new ideas for how we can bring our own awesome to that next level. I’m excited to meet a new friend that Broc has brought to the conversation today. So without further ado, Jeremy tell us who you are and what you do, brother.
Jeremy: [00:01:00] Hey, how’s it going guys? Thanks for having me. My name is Jeremy Boyum and I play in a band from Austin Texas called Shadow of Whales, like the mammal not the country. I play bass and I do a lot of the marketing and social media and sales aspect and on the back end of that.
Broc: [00:01:22] So I was telling Dan a little earlier with things Jeremy that and I have spoke a couple of times in person. One of the things that really impressed me about you is seeing you, well, my daughter and I go to a lot of shows together. We both really like music and one day we were out in line in the Texas heat waiting Sitia, waiting to get in, even through security there was a huge line and here’s Jeremy out there with a clipboard and then he going up to people and just saying, Hey, you know I’m in a band. I’ve got an album. I Would love to give you and I’ll do it in exchange for your email address” So Jeremy tell us what inspired that cause I didn’t see any other bands out there that day doing that.
Jeremy: [00:02:06] What’s kind of inspired that is this, I guess constantly growing, learning aspects I guess or knowledge that I’ve gotten from a guy named Rick Parker who used to manage Taylor Swift, if I’m not mistaken, I hope I’m not getting that completely absolutely wrong but he and Taylor when she was first starting out, she had a clear cut goal of kind of where she wanted to be and it was like a million sales or something like that on a record. His advice to her and what they used go forward was, “If you want to sell a million records then you need to meet a million people.” So they started doing like more meet and greets. They started every time she was doing a show. She was going out and talking to people waiting outside regardless whether or not they were there for her or they were there for the other bands or other artists. She just, she went and she literally shook the hands of a million people. A big goal for us, Shadow of Whales, is to eventually be the point where we’re touring and touring not just nationally but internationally. Something that we had to do before we can do that is we’ve got to own Austin, Texas, we’ve got to own Texas which I’m just trying to get through the meeting a million people as quickly as I can. The best way to do that is going to concerts where there’s bands that are sound like us, where fans that might like us are going and saying, “Hey, I want to meet you. Let’s start by. I’ll show you some of my music and then we can start a dialogue and become friends.”.
Broc: [00:04:12] I love the connection here because to me, I see a huge connection between being in a band and trying to start your own business and all the people that talk a good game but again and I don’t want to be the same death. I don’t see them out in the Texas sun moving it forward and I don’t know if you’re aware of this or not Jeremy but you’ve got a little bit competition if you want to be in a band.
Jeremy: [00:04:36] It’s true. That’s true.
Broc: [00:04:40] What do you do to stand out? That’s always a question no matter what your business is. How do you stand out amongst the sea of all the other people that are trying to do the exact same thing?
Jeremy: [00:04:51] Well that’s a good question and I’m not sure that I have a solid answer for you. We are out in the Texas sun talking to new people. You’re right, I don’t ever really see any other bands that are out there doing that same thing and I don’t know if it’s because of they know something that I don’t know like I’m just doing it wrong and they’re like, “What is that guy doing? It’s never going anywhere”, or if it’s just we’re doing what it takes and others aren’t. I don’t know, it’s probably a little bit of both.
Dan: [00:05:31] I mean, I love that, look, when I first started my newsletter, I wrote handwritten responses to the first thousand people who signed up and then I did it for the second thousand and then third thousand and 10,000 people in, I stopped. I couldn’t anymore, they were signing up too fast.
Jeremy: [00:05:48] Yes.
Dan: [00:05:49] When I hear it, in today’s world of hit a button and get 10,000 people watching your YouTube videos. My son even said the other day, “Dad, have you ever thought about doing something crazy like doing your Edgy interviews while skydiving or something?”, like, “Oh, let’s get Broc in a wing suit. I don’t know.”.
Jeremy: [00:06:11] Oh man, I would just not ever do that.
Dan: [00:06:15] What is it in today’s world. Like you said a million fans.
Jeremy: [00:06:22] Yes.
Dan: [00:06:22] There are a lot of people who would be hiring social media experts. How do we get you on Vivo or whatever the sound things are? How do we get you and, your strategy is how do I connect one on one with a million people and in the sun and grind it out? I’m convinced, I don’t have a lot of proof to back it up right now. Your current strategy is probably the one that’s willing to work because when I see people you avoid doing the hard things. I see people who are mentally are failing.
Jeremy: [00:06:54] Yes, my heroes are people like Rick Barker and people like Ari Herstand and those that when I’ve read interviews about them, they’re talking about their early days and what they did. Ari Herstand was one who, his goal was to sell other show which is kind of what we feel like our first step this year in Austin and what we’re trying to do for our show on July 5th at Stubb’s in Austin. He would work with the other bands even if it was like out of town. He would go to those towns like days early to put up flyers, posters and he would just do the works and do, kind of a similar kind of thing where he would just try and talk to as many people as possible about his music and about who he is. Eventually, it just happened those little deposits every single day add up just like the hym. You got to go, it can’t just be one time that you go to the gym and it can’t just be one week or two months. It’s got to be incrementally, you just got to keep going.
Dan: [00:08:10] Talking about the journey, Broc shared some videos with me of you. It looked like some of them were several years old. Event like this and talked to me about what, there’s a lot of people in our community who are starting things or have started things. I talked to a guy in a community who came to one of our events, Awesomepalooza, who said, “I’ve been trying to do this business for seven years”, and I was like, “What?” Talk to me a little bit about your journey. How long you been doing it? What you’ve learned and kind of where you’re at now?
Jeremy: [00:08:40] We’ve been a band, in August it will be five years, that’s how long we’ve been doing it. We started in Josh’s garage, Josh is our lead singer and we’ve kind of gone from there. I think that’s something to note about being an epic, awesome person I guess is that, it’s impossible, it’s not impossible but it’s hard to be epicly awesome 100% of the time and there’s definitely times where Shadow of Whales, we’ve been up and down and I’ve been up and down and something that’s been encouraging to me is seeing other people admit when, it wasn’t just like constant growth for them. They had like those plateaus and they went down where like maybe laziness got them, just like the gym again, that analogy where like you’re going for a while and then you can fall off and then you go again and you kind of fall off and it’s just like every time you go and get back up you’re getting a little bit better. That’s kind of how it’s been for us. We’ve had these large pushes and then kind of things will go a bit stagnant for a little while and then we’ll kind of regroup, makes some new goals go out again and get a little bit further every time we go out and we’ll get a little bit more stable and will last a little bit like our endurance will last a little bit longer to every time we forge a plan and go out there. I don’t know if that’s why it’s taken four or five years to get where we are or if this just how long it takes. I was talking to, I went to San Francisco recently and it talks to a metal band about how long they’d been around and where they were in their careers. They were like nationally touring every year, twice, two or three times a year. They were going around the US and doing these massive tours but they’d also been around for 10 years. His advice to me was like commonly, sometimes it’s more sometimes it’s less it can take up to seven years for a band to get to a point where they’re stable, they’re good, they’re going and it’s just constant growth from that point. I don’t know, I feel like it’s kind of dangerous to chase numbers like that just because, again sometimes it’s more, sometimes it’s less. But it was like an eye opener to me like, “Okay, I’m here because I’m just not there yet.” I think that’s, I don’t know, I feel like that’s a really important lesson just to know that it’s really hard to be awesome 100%of the time and sometimes part of being awesome is regrouping and just getting back up and going out there again.
Broc: [00:11:34] Absolutely, and you bring up a great point. It’s a common theme on this show. My wife refers to it as the living the dream syndrome. My wife, for those who don’t know works with horses. Her whole life, her career has been in the horse industry. She trained hoirse, she competes, she trains riders and that sounds amazing until it’s like Christmas morning and you’re knee deep in maneuver trying to get a horse to not die.
Jeremy: [00:12:01] Oh, yes.
Broc: [00:12:02] That sounds awesome until, “Oh yeah, it is the Texas sun for five months of the year.” You’re outside all the time and most of the time you don’t want to be outside. We see this in businesses because, like I always point to Instagram or just the idea that you’re an entrepreneur or I guess the good one to call yourself these days is founder, you’re the founder and that sounds amazing and it’s shiny and it’s happy and nothing bad ever happens and it’s constant growth from the moment you start the company. I kind of love the connection here too, the rock and roll lifestyle because it’s all good. There’s no downside to it at all. I say that very facetiously. What is kind of a, two part question here. What is the reality that people don’t see? And how do you keep going through that?
Jeremy: [00:13:02] I think that the reality is that the blood, sweat and tears is not the making of the music part or even playing the show’s part. That is the fantastic part of the music career and connecting with people and people being affected by your music in a positive way. That’s like the best, just the most amazing part. There is just nothing better than being at a show where you’ve spent all that time collecting those pebbles right. Then they all show up to your show, all of those little pebbles and. You’re playing a show and you could just see it in their eyes that they love the music and then they talk to you at the merch table and they tell you like, “This song affected me”, and so it’s just a fantastic feeling. For others, maybe it’s just the feeling of being on stage and playing to people that know your music, that’s awesome. That’s not the blood, sweat, tears part. I think that a lot of people think that that is the hard work. The hard work is the behind the scenes stuff where you’re going out in the Texas sun signing people up to your e-mail list or your going out every weekends to put up flyers and put up posters all around town. You’re setting up social media ads. You’re coming up with content to put on your social media just to keep your fans and engage. All of that stuff is a lot less intuitive, well, putting up flyers is intuitive but it’s repetitive and it can get redundant and it can definitely start to feel like that’s not helping anything. Just like going to the gym the one time doesn’t feel like it really helps anything other than get your muscles sore and dehydrated. The reality is that all of that stuff, that hard work is what makes things happen. That hard work is what has gotten us here, making the music and playing shows hasn’t gotten us to where we are. I think that that’s kind of, what a lot of people don’t see, a lot of people don’t, well, a lot of people see is Instagram being bought by Facebook and a lot of people see this new band that they discovered on the radio and this new band that they saw playing Jimmy Kimmel. That’s what they see. They don’t see the 7 to 10 years beforehand where that band was not known by anybody. They had to find their own way and experiment with their own ideas on how to market their music and put up their own flyers and sell their own music by themselves. They don’t see that part and I think that the way to get through that, a lot of people say that they want to be in a band and they want to do this and they’ll say well I don’t want to do that. It’s like well if you don’t want to do that than being a band as a hobby it’s always going to be. So the way to get through that really is to love music and playing music and being a band so much that it just legitimately does not matter if you fail. If it matters if you fail, if it matters that you’re not making money at it. Then don’t do it, if it doesn’t matter then you just keep going until it happens because if it matters that much that you’re going to fail, you’re going to eventually quit.
Dan: [00:16:41] It’s amazing. I feel like you’re talking to me. I feel like we’re listening right now to Rock Band are not that gifted to me in a band. But those who are going, I don’t have results but my muscles are tired and I feel dehydrated and I’m tired and I’m fatigued and I’m cranky and I get up stuff and I’m still not on Jimmy Kimmel right. I still have 250,000 customers I’ve got to. I think these lessons are powerful. How did you learn them? Because you’re speaking a lot of wisdom here. Have you always had these ideas? Did you, did these ideas involve? Did you wake up one day and go, “I need to change my mindset”? There’s a lot of what you share here with mindset. How did you come to these beliefs?
Jeremy: [00:17:37] Well, I have I’ve been very fortunate to have supportive parents and a supportive father who was kind of passionate about being an entrepreneur. He’s also, always been supportive of music and just whatever I’ve wanted to do which is awesome. I think that is definitely an advantage that I have over a lot of people. But also I think that a lot of it inherently comes from being passionate about marketing and sales. I’ve always been in the band aspect. Even when I was in high school, I was in band in high school and I was always passionate like, “Okay, how do we get on a newspaper? How do we do this? How do we do that? And how do we sell ourselves new venues?”, and all that kind of stuff. I’ve just always been passionate about those two particular aspects when it comes to music, even more particularly in band. That’s really, easily led me to people like Zig Ziglar and people like Tony Robbins and just all of these speakers who are passionate about the philosophy of a positive mindset, how you kind of speak positivity into your own life and and then specifically when it comes to marketing and sales because obviously Zig Ziglar is a salesman. They say a famous one he recipes and he and anytime that I’ve worked a sales job like I worked the sales job with my grandparents a very long time ago and they recommended Zig Ziglar to me and that helps me through kind of being an outside salesman. I currently work sales in my daytime job and so all of the training kind of goes back to mindset and also just how to market yourself as a salesperson. So all of that has kind of led me to being who I am today. Then when it comes to Shadow of Whales, naturally, the first thing that I started looking up was, what are the music business podcasts that I can go and listen to the music business blogs and all of that stuff and so that’s led me to a lot of the same kind of resources like Zig Ziglar but specifically music industry resources like the rockstar advocate and the rockstar branding podcast, the music business podcast, music biz weekly podcast, Ari Herstand has a blog called Aristake.com Which I highly recommend to anybody starting out in the music industry and so part of these groups and these blogs and all of that stuff and just over the course of four or five years if you’re reading that stuff and listening this is impossible not to pic some of the stuff.
Broc: [00:20:37] I love this because, I guess I don’t see that from other musicians and I don’t know that I see that always for people who are wanting to branch out into something else and do something different, whether it’s a side hustle or they want to transition out of their day job. The last time you and I spoke actually the last show I saw you guys play. You talk about, playing a gig doing, three sets and then driving home in the middle of a night, getting home at like 3:00, 4:00 in the morning and then having to go into your day job. You get like two hours of sleep and then, “Oh, I have to be bright and shiny and positive and selling stuff to people”, because you’ve got a mortgage and a car payment and real life waiting for you off of the stage. That’s a level of commitment that is hard to come up with. For most people, looking to do the side host, like I mean, I just into like myself here, thinking, “Okay, I love this so much I’m going to stay up till 3:00, 4:00 in the morning. Get no sleep and then have to go be on during my day job.”I guess that’s just an observation. When I see people struggling and I think, wow, the level of commitment that I see you bring to it, Jeremy. I see it you bring to your music when you’re out there in the sun, when you’re doing stuff that I don’t see other people doing, to me that’s inspiring. That gets me fired up and excited. I love your line that you’ve got to love it so much that it doesn’t matter if you fail.
Jeremy: [00:22:14] Yes, exactly. Like I was saying that going to work the next morning after getting home after three. Getting back at 3:00 in the morning after playing three sets, driving three hours and having good work at 8:00 in the morning is like, I said it’s not the blood, sweat and tears part but a lot of people would think that it is. A lot of people would see that is like, if those three sets didn’t go well, that’s a fail and then I’m having to go to work at 8:00 in the morning and it feels like I just wasted my weekend. That’s kind of where it is like, failure matters. That is a tough pill to swallow. If I’ve failed and I went into work the next day it’s hard to, it’s hard to constantly get past that. You were mentioning your wife too like, if you’re out in the sun for eight hours or going through maneuver on Christmas morning, if that matters to you then it’s just going to be really difficult to keep going past that every time.
Broc: [00:23:25] What advice would you give to people who are kind of at that? Do I want to make the leap. How do I keep going because I’m doing all the stuff but it doesn’t feel like I’m getting any traction?
Jeremy: [00:23:40] I would say this, I would say, every thing that you do is a pebble that you’re putting in your collection. I heard it kind of spoken that way like every time you go and you get a new van or you get couple of new vans, it’s like just imagine that you’re collecting pebbles and putting them in your pocket. Everything is a pebble and it’s hard when you do it kind of work to get a pebble. Just like it’s hard to go to the gym and workout for an entire hour or 30 minutes. Get your sweat on and feel like it’s really made any sort of difference towards your overall goal. It’s kind of the same way with even putting savings if you want to say it that way like if you’re just starting out savings and you’re like save five dollars a week and four weeks have gone by which is a long time. Most people’s brain, I think a month of working hard to put that five dollars in every week, the end of the month you have $20. That doesn’t feel like much so I would say just stick to the process, stick to the the program and just watch it grow over time. Every time you start to feel like it’s not really going anywhere, it’s not making a difference. Try to instead of thinking back a month, think back a year and really think about like what you’ve accomplished since then. It’s, I don’t do this, I should do this because it would help me immensely. I’ve heard that having like an accomplishment or achievements journal is really great, just something where you’re tracking like every time you reach a milestone or every time you’ve got some sort of success, that way when you go back and you look at, “Oh man, this isn’t going anywhere”, but you go back in your journal. It’s you June right now and you go back in your journal to January and you see all of the things that have happened, that you’ve accomplished from your hard work since January and you’re like, “Oh, okay, it’s actually going really, really well. But today it just doesn’t feel like that feeling like that yesterday. Yesterday I was like panicked not just feeling like I’m getting back now feeling like I’m not going anywhere and I was feeling all this doubt and I told my wife this as she was”, also very fortunate to have a supportive wife, I would suggest that as well but she was like, “No, you’re doing great”, and she just fired me back up and helped me realize that you know all of the stuff that’s happening I’m working hard every day that I do that, I’m an inch closer to my goals and it’s just that. You just gotta keep reminding yourself of how successful you actually are in contrast to what you feel like your reality is today because it’s really easy to see the negatives first. In fact, I think that our our brains are almost conditions to see the negatives first in today’s age especially. Thinking positively is as a workout in and of itself and it’s conditioning, it’s mental conditioning to constantly be reminding yourself, “I’m doing great”, and constantly reminding yourself, “I am a professional musician”, and stressing like the part that you want before you have the part constantly for basically ever until it happens.
Broc: [00:27:17] I wrote like five things down. Five take aways from your answered on the last question. It is fantastic. You have the idea of collecting pebbles, the idea of the achievements journal, reminding yourself how far you’ve come, remind yourself that no, you have been successful. Just that inch closer to goals everyday as one step closer. Even the idea of that thinking positively is a workout in itself. We’re told to think positively but we’re never told, “Oh yeah, it’s kind of hard sometimes” I love this. I know we’re going to want to get you on for part two here because there’s just so much to dig into that we’re just scratching the surface on. If you had an ask of people in the community, where are you feeling stuck that you would just love some advice on?
Jeremy: [00:28:16] I think right now, where I’m Feeling stuck is, it’s difficult to be where we are, we’ve got a good base of people that we are connecting with but constantly making content for them is difficult because that takes a lot of time but then also, coming up with new ways to meet new people outside of what we’re already doing and kind of experimenting with what might be more efficient. Maybe it’s just like an organization issue but trying to like stay organized but also keep your mind fresh and ready to think of new ideas as kind of where I’m starting to feel a little bit stuck at start and kind of feel like I’m in, I’m in the monotony right here where I’m doing well with what I’ve got. But I feel like I can’t also make new things and go out and do new things. And so when I’m doing one or the other it seems like once failing. So maybe that’s just like an organizational problem. I need to just like wake up 10 minutes earlier, drink some coffee and think of some new ideas before I get into the monotony. But yeah that’s kind of where I’m feelin it.\.
Broc: [00:29:38] All right, cool. We’ll definitely ask folks about that. So we’re going to wrap up here. I’ve been great having you on Jeremy. Dan would say so as well except he’s having technical issues right now and has not been able to hear the last five minutes of our conversation. So he’ll go back through and listen to it and one of the things I know is that, I know Dan’s got a ton of stuff to to share that echoes what you’re going through, the content he’s put out there mirrors where you’re at but I also know that many of the things that you say are helpful to Dan, helpful to myself, helpful to other members of the community because that’s what we’re going through, that persist that keep following the dream even when it gets hard. In the dream is going to be hard. And so we’re going in it here. I say I know we want to dig in further and so we’ll just let it wind down there. Nikki.
Theme music (“Runaway”) by Shadow of Whales: https://www.facebook.com/shadowofwhales